Comments on: The Inexplicable Monks: On Second Thought http://www.danielgoleman.info/2008/01/12/the-inexplicable-monks-on-second-thought/ Emotional Intelligence, Social Intelligence, Ecological Intelligence Tue, 06 Apr 2010 15:54:02 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.9.2 hourly 1 By: Lady 's Park http://www.danielgoleman.info/2008/01/12/the-inexplicable-monks-on-second-thought/comment-page-1/#comment-424 Lady 's Park Sun, 19 Oct 2008 16:20:22 +0000 http://www.danielgoleman.info/blog/2008/01/12/the-inexplicable-monks-on-second-thought/#comment-424 <strong>[Emotional intelligence]The Inexplicable Monks: On Second Thought...</strong> s on the order of 100 percent from baseline. What caught my eye in this data was not this difference between novices and experts (which might be explained in any number of ways, including a self-selec Links：[Emotional intelligence][Neuroscience] Th... [Emotional intelligence]The Inexplicable Monks: On Second Thought…

s on the order of 100 percent from baseline. What caught my eye in this data was not this difference between novices and experts (which might be explained in any number of ways, including a self-selec
Links：[Emotional intelligence][Neuroscience]

Th…

]]> By: Gerry McClelland http://www.danielgoleman.info/2008/01/12/the-inexplicable-monks-on-second-thought/comment-page-1/#comment-423 Gerry McClelland Tue, 23 Sep 2008 22:02:52 +0000 http://www.danielgoleman.info/blog/2008/01/12/the-inexplicable-monks-on-second-thought/#comment-423 I am not sure what conclusions to draw from gamma wave enhancement as a result of meditation. It may lead to greater insight or it may lead to delusions of greater insight for all I know. When a scientist or mathematician or philosopher has spent 40,000 hours fully engaged in solving thorny problems, is there similar gamma wave enhancement? To suppose that a group of such meditators could change all humanity seems to be a leap of faith quite unjustified by any evidence. Incidentally, the monks, being Buddhist, do not believe in a God so they would be unlikely to agree that their experience shows that we are 'wired' for God. I am not sure what conclusions to draw from gamma wave enhancement as a result of meditation. It may lead to greater insight or it may lead to delusions of greater insight for all I know. When a scientist or mathematician or philosopher has spent 40,000 hours fully engaged in solving thorny problems, is there similar gamma wave enhancement?
To suppose that a group of such meditators could change all humanity seems to be a leap of faith quite unjustified by any evidence. Incidentally, the monks, being Buddhist, do not believe in a God so they would be unlikely to agree that their experience shows that we are ‘wired’ for God.

]]> By: S. Faramand http://www.danielgoleman.info/2008/01/12/the-inexplicable-monks-on-second-thought/comment-page-1/#comment-422 S. Faramand Tue, 13 May 2008 11:56:06 +0000 http://www.danielgoleman.info/blog/2008/01/12/the-inexplicable-monks-on-second-thought/#comment-422 Although I find Richard Davidson's work on compassion meditation fascinating, I am concerned that he reduces compassion to a stimulated repsonse mechanism. Compassion (and Love) are incredibly complex emotions , with individual differences in how they are induced and expressed. Are we sure that increased gamma activity only reflects compassion, or does it reflect visualisation of compassion. It would be interesting to compare the two Tibetan monks with most hours of meditation experience with a larger sample of monks to be a true experiment (ie, monks from the same monastery and same age group with the same number of hours experience). If the dose-response model is correct, we would expect them all to have equally high gamma rays. In my experience, compassion isn't a reflection of how many hours a person can afford to spend meditating ( a rare luxury in most parts of the world today) and I personally know of monastics who may have spent a lifetime engaging in such practices but still struggle with certain emotions once faced with the harsh realities of the world. Surely, a scientific exploration of compassion should look at 'compassion in the ghetto', so to speak. Those amazing people, like Margaret Mizen, the mother of the murdered child, Jimmy Mizen, here in England, (mother of nine children and no doubt with little time to meditate) whose compassion in action highlights an important dimension to the study of complex human emotions. Yes, compassion can be stimulated and taught to a degree, as Davidson's study implies, but there is far more to be investigated although this is an exciting start. As saying goes: "Not everyone who ran after the gazelle caught it, but he who caught it ran after it". Although I find Richard Davidson’s work on compassion meditation fascinating, I am concerned that he reduces compassion to a stimulated repsonse mechanism. Compassion (and Love) are incredibly complex emotions , with individual differences in how they are induced and expressed. Are we sure that increased gamma activity only reflects compassion, or does it reflect visualisation of compassion. It would be interesting to compare the two Tibetan monks with most hours of meditation experience with a larger sample of monks to be a true experiment (ie, monks from the same monastery and same age group with the same number of hours experience). If the dose-response model is correct, we would expect them all to have equally high gamma rays.

In my experience, compassion isn’t a reflection of how many hours a person can afford to spend meditating ( a rare luxury in most parts of the world today) and I personally know of monastics who may have spent a lifetime engaging in such practices but still struggle with certain emotions once faced with the harsh realities of the world. Surely, a scientific exploration of compassion should look at ‘compassion in the ghetto’, so to speak. Those amazing people, like Margaret Mizen, the mother of the murdered child, Jimmy Mizen, here in England, (mother of nine children and no doubt with little time to meditate) whose compassion in action highlights an important dimension to the study of complex human emotions. Yes, compassion can be stimulated and taught to a degree, as Davidson’s study implies, but there is far more to be investigated although this is an exciting start. As saying goes: “Not everyone who ran after the gazelle caught it, but he who caught it ran after it”.

]]> By: Fred Ranaudo http://www.danielgoleman.info/2008/01/12/the-inexplicable-monks-on-second-thought/comment-page-1/#comment-421 Fred Ranaudo Thu, 21 Feb 2008 14:39:57 +0000 http://www.danielgoleman.info/blog/2008/01/12/the-inexplicable-monks-on-second-thought/#comment-421 I met David Morehouse at an Omega workshop several years ago and was very intrigued and excited by his work with remote viewing. My take in a nutshell is that he is offering a program whereby individuals learn to work with the universe as a holographic entity where all information,action, energy that ever was or will be is available for perusal (sounds familiar). His goal is to train enough remote viewers to attain a critical mass of consciousness that will trigger a paradigm shift in the rest of humanity, thus elevating all human consciousness. His work is worth some serious consideration in the context of operational analysis of meditation, its form and its function. Its amazing how many roads there are, and that in the end they all do lead to Rome (so to speak). I met David Morehouse at an Omega workshop several years ago and was very intrigued and excited by his work with remote viewing. My take in a nutshell is that he is offering a program whereby individuals learn to work with the universe as a holographic entity where all information,action, energy that ever was or will be is available for perusal (sounds familiar). His goal is to train enough remote viewers to attain a critical mass of consciousness that will trigger a paradigm shift in the rest of humanity, thus elevating all human consciousness. His work is worth some serious consideration in the context of operational analysis of meditation, its form and its function. Its amazing how many roads there are, and that in the end they all do lead to Rome (so to speak).

]]> By: Donald Hoover http://www.danielgoleman.info/2008/01/12/the-inexplicable-monks-on-second-thought/comment-page-1/#comment-420 Donald Hoover Sat, 09 Feb 2008 08:15:32 +0000 http://www.danielgoleman.info/blog/2008/01/12/the-inexplicable-monks-on-second-thought/#comment-420 We are 'wired' for God. How hard can the conclusion be? djay www.werone.us We are ‘wired’ for God. How hard can the conclusion be?

djay

http://www.werone.us

]]> By: John Yeo http://www.danielgoleman.info/2008/01/12/the-inexplicable-monks-on-second-thought/comment-page-1/#comment-419 John Yeo Thu, 07 Feb 2008 02:42:42 +0000 http://www.danielgoleman.info/blog/2008/01/12/the-inexplicable-monks-on-second-thought/#comment-419 I am a training consultant intending to introduce a discussion on Emotional Intelligence in one of our courses on project management. I noted a reference to “the dose-response rule”, and would like to cite Oliver Sacks’ book <i>Awakenings</i> (1973, 1990, ISBN 0-375-70405-1) on his treatment of patients using the drug L-DOPA. He and his staff tried to find the optimum dosage but found some strange results. My explanation (as for the monks) is that human beings are not mechanistic and whilst we may sometimes treat people that way we are now and then brought down to earth and have to face reality. We face this even more in training. The person who does a five-day course should but does not necessarily know more or perform better than the person who does a 2-day course. And the person who has managed ten projects may not manage them any better than the person who has managed two. I am a training consultant intending to introduce a discussion on Emotional Intelligence in one of our courses on project management. I noted a reference to “the dose-response rule”, and would like to cite Oliver Sacks’ book Awakenings (1973, 1990, ISBN 0-375-70405-1) on his treatment of patients using the drug L-DOPA. He and his staff tried to find the optimum dosage but found some strange results. My explanation (as for the monks) is that human beings are not mechanistic and whilst we may sometimes treat people that way we are now and then brought down to earth and have to face reality. We face this even more in training. The person who does a five-day course should but does not necessarily know more or perform better than the person who does a 2-day course. And the person who has managed ten projects may not manage them any better than the person who has managed two.

]]> By: Mary http://www.danielgoleman.info/2008/01/12/the-inexplicable-monks-on-second-thought/comment-page-1/#comment-418 Mary Wed, 23 Jan 2008 22:02:42 +0000 http://www.danielgoleman.info/blog/2008/01/12/the-inexplicable-monks-on-second-thought/#comment-418 I would like to tell you about a website we have started to spread compassion. It is called the Hidden Angel Network (ha.net) and is a site where people can give thanks to others for acts of kindness. Thought you would be interested, let me know if you would like to participate in any way :) - Mary http://ha.net I would like to tell you about a website we have started to spread compassion. It is called the Hidden Angel Network (ha.net) and is a site where people can give thanks to others for acts of kindness.

Thought you would be interested, let me know if you would like to participate in any way :)

- Mary
http://ha.net

]]> By: Dorianne Cotter-Lockard http://www.danielgoleman.info/2008/01/12/the-inexplicable-monks-on-second-thought/comment-page-1/#comment-417 Dorianne Cotter-Lockard Sun, 20 Jan 2008 23:21:04 +0000 http://www.danielgoleman.info/blog/2008/01/12/the-inexplicable-monks-on-second-thought/#comment-417 I am glad that the neuroscience community is conducting this type of research on the topic of higher levels of consciousness as achieved through meditation. It doesn't surprise me that lifetime "olympic level" meditators would show these high levels of gamma activity. I am a new doctoral student in Human and Organizational Development and am about to conduct some research for a paper on the experience of deep meditators who reach these higher levels of consciousness. My questions on this topic were spurred by reading Satprem's book, "Aurobindo - The Adventures of Consciousness," in which he discusses different levels of consciousness. It was Aurobindo's goal to reach a "supramental" level in which humans can consciously evolve our species - in other words, actually influence our physical structure. He theorized that in the process of moving more people to higher levels of consciousness, we could move the world in general to a more evolved existence (maybe even eliminate war and famine...). I wonder if there's a "tipping point" what would it be? It seems that your monks have arrived at a level of consciousness close to this supramental level. However, if it takes a certain number of people to reach this level in order to change the evolution of our species, and if it takes Olympian effort to get there, would it ever happen? I'm wondering if we could raise the general level of consciousness to one or two levels above the current levels, would we impact our species? How many people would need to meditate and how many hours per day (I only meditate 30 minutes per day....) BTW, I found your blog because there's an ongoing dialog on my blog about EI. I referenced your work and your research institute, but you may want to post and give further explanation. One of my European readers questions whether EI can be measured in a similar way to IQ. The post is titled "Spirituality in Business" at www.phdconfidential.wordpress.com I am glad that the neuroscience community is conducting this type of research on the topic of higher levels of consciousness as achieved through meditation. It doesn’t surprise me that lifetime “olympic level” meditators would show these high levels of gamma activity. I am a new doctoral student in Human and Organizational Development and am about to conduct some research for a paper on the experience of deep meditators who reach these higher levels of consciousness.

My questions on this topic were spurred by reading Satprem’s book, “Aurobindo – The Adventures of Consciousness,” in which he discusses different levels of consciousness. It was Aurobindo’s goal to reach a “supramental” level in which humans can consciously evolve our species – in other words, actually influence our physical structure. He theorized that in the process of moving more people to higher levels of consciousness, we could move the world in general to a more evolved existence (maybe even eliminate war and famine…). I wonder if there’s a “tipping point” what would it be?

It seems that your monks have arrived at a level of consciousness close to this supramental level. However, if it takes a certain number of people to reach this level in order to change the evolution of our species, and if it takes Olympian effort to get there, would it ever happen? I’m wondering if we could raise the general level of consciousness to one or two levels above the current levels, would we impact our species? How many people would need to meditate and how many hours per day (I only meditate 30 minutes per day….)

BTW, I found your blog because there’s an ongoing dialog on my blog about EI. I referenced your work and your research institute, but you may want to post and give further explanation. One of my European readers questions whether EI can be measured in a similar way to IQ. The post is titled “Spirituality in Business” at http://www.phdconfidential.wordpress.com

]]> By: Mark McGuinness http://www.danielgoleman.info/2008/01/12/the-inexplicable-monks-on-second-thought/comment-page-1/#comment-416 Mark McGuinness Thu, 17 Jan 2008 10:13:22 +0000 http://www.danielgoleman.info/blog/2008/01/12/the-inexplicable-monks-on-second-thought/#comment-416 Fascinating posts, thank you. Particularly interesting to see such dramatic results coming from meditation on compassion. Are you aware of any studies comparing meditation on compassion with other forms of meditation (e.g. concentration)? Fascinating posts, thank you. Particularly interesting to see such dramatic results coming from meditation on compassion. Are you aware of any studies comparing meditation on compassion with other forms of meditation (e.g. concentration)?

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